New Delhi [India], March 16 : In a poignant and introspective interaction with renowned podcaster Lex Fridman Prime Minister Narendra Modi reflected on the tumultuous relationship between India and Pakistan.
PM Modi reflected on the painful history between the two nations, citing the partition of the subcontinent and the subsequent bloodshed. He expressed his disappointment that Pakistan chose not to foster a harmonious coexistence, instead waging a proxy war against India.
When Fridman asked PM Modi to share his vision for a future where the two nations could coexist in peace and harmony, PM Modi's response was a heartfelt and sombre account of the partition of the subcontinent and the ensuing bloodshed.
He described the traumatic scenes of trains arriving from Pakistan filled with wounded and dead people and the overwhelming grief that Indians felt as they struggled to come to terms with the painful reality.
"With hearts weighed down by grief and silent tears, Indians embraced this painful reality. However, what unfolded was an immediate heartbreaking saga of bloodshed. Trains filled with bloodied, wounded people and corpses started arriving from Pakistan. It was a harrowing sight. After getting their own way, we expected them to live and let live and yet, they chose not to foster a harmonious coexistence."
Despite the passage of time, PM Modi noted that Pakistan had continued to wage a proxy war against India, fueled by an ideology that thrived on bloodshed and terror. He emphasised that this was not a matter of ideology, but rather a choice that Pakistan had made, and one that had far-reaching consequences for the world.
"Time and again, they decided to be at odds with India. They have waged a proxy war against us. Don't mistake this for ideology. What kind of ideology thrives on bloodshed and the export of terror, and we are not the sole victims of this menace? Wherever terror strikes in the world, the trail somehow leads to Pakistan."
PM Modi emphasised that this is not a matter of ideology, but rather a choice to thrive on bloodshed and export terror.
He cited the example of the September 11 attacks in the US and said, "The main mastermind behind it, Osama bin Laden, where did he eventually emerge from? He had taken refuge in Pakistan. The world has recognized that in a way terrorism and the terrorist mindset are deeply rooted in Pakistan. Today, it stands as an epicentre of turmoil, not just for India but for the world. And we have repeatedly asked them what good can come from this path."
PM Modi said that he urged them to abandon the path of state-sponsored terrorism for good. "What do you hope to gain by surrendering your nation to lawless forces?" he added.
The Prime Minister also shared his efforts to improve relations with Pakistan, including inviting then-Pakistan PM Nawaz Sharif to his oath-taking ceremony. However, he noted that every attempt at fostering peace was met with hostility and betrayal.
"I even personally travelled to Lahore in the pursuit of peace. When I became Prime Minister, I specially invited Pakistan to my swearing-in ceremony so we could turn over a new leaf. Yet, every noble attempt at fostering peace was met with hostility and betrayal," said PM Modi.
PM Modi reiterated, "I mentioned my first attempt at improving bilateral relations was when I invited my Pakistani counterpart to my swearing-in. It was a gesture of goodwill. It was a diplomatic gesture unlike any in decades. The very people who once questioned my approach to foreign policy were taken aback when they learned I had invited all SAARC heads of state".
He shared that the then-president of India, Pranab Mukherjee beautifully captured that historic gesture in his memoir.
"This was a testament to how clear and confident India's foreign policy had become. This sent a clear message to the world about India's commitment to peace and harmony, but we didn't get the desired outcome", PM Modi said.
PM Modi's words were tinged with a deep sense of sadness and regret, but also a sense of resolve and determination. He expressed his hope that wisdom would prevail upon Pakistan's leaders and that they would choose the path of peace and cooperation.
"We sincerely hope that wisdom prevails upon them and they choose the path of peace," said PM Modi.
He expressed sorrow for the Pakistani civilians suffering due to terrorism and hoped that wisdom would prevail upon Pakistan's leaders to choose the path of peace.
"I believe even the people of Pakistan long for peace because even they must be weary of living in strife and unrest, they must have grown weary of relentless terror where even innocent children are killed and countless lives are destroyed," he added.
In a lighter moment, when asked about the better cricket team between India and Pakistan, PM Modi diplomatically replied that sports have the power to energise the world and bring people together. While he didn't take sides, he hinted that the recent match between the two teams revealed which team was better.
"I think sports have the power to energize the entire world. The spirit of sports brings people together across different nations. That's why I would never want to see sports being discredited. I truly believe that sports play a major role in human evolution. They're not just games, they connect people on a deeper level," said PM Modi.
He added that while is not an expert when it comes to who is better in terms of techniques, PM Modi said, "Only those who specialize in the technical aspects can judge which techniques are superior and who the best players really are. But sometimes the results speak for themselves. Just a few days ago, India and Pakistan played a match. The result reveals, which is the better team. That's how we know."
Lex Fridman is a research scientist who also hosts his podcast, "Lex Fridman Podcast."
In his podcasts, several personalities from various walks of life have discussed issues ranging from complex niches to other areas of mass understanding.
Notable figures include political leaders like US President Donald Trump, Israel's Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, and Argentinian Prime Minister Javier Milei, as well as leading personalities in their fields, such as Elon Musk, Mark Zuckerberg, Jeff Bezos, Sam Altman, Magnus Carlson, and Yuval Noah Harari.